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Jaime's Challenge

The good news: Jaime Lannister pulled it out and defeated Kvothe. Came from 700 votes behind in the final hours to win handily... all thanks to you guys, of course. Thanks to all of you who voted for him... and all of you who voted for his opponent (misguided though you are). And to Patrick Rothfuss, a fine writer and a good sport, who made this round a lot of fun. RIP, Kvothe.

The bad news: Jaime is in the final, and his opponent is Rand al'Thor.

Let me see. Rand is a master swordsman. He's got one of those "heron mark" swords, which is probably the equal of Valyrian steel. He's the reincarnation of the greatest hero and wizard in the history of Robert Jordan's universe. He's got balefire. And then there's that whole ta'veren thing he's got going.

Jaime has gilded armor, a shield, a Valyrian steel sword, and a dwarf.


"Here's my counsel for this round," Tyrion said. "Run away. Don't look back."

Jaime is not impressed. "A Lannister does not run."

"This one does," said Tyrion, "but I figured you'd say that. So here's what you need to do to have ANY hope of surviving this one..."

Jaime's last match was fought on Kvothe's home turf. An away game. Therefore Jaime demands that this final be played out on his own ground, in the tourney grounds outside King's Landing, according to the customs and traditions of Westeros.

And should the wizards of Suvudu grant THAT request, he further demands that this be made a TRIAL OF SEVEN, to honor the Seven Gods. His right to demand such a format is sanctified by ancient Westerosi custom... and my first Dunk & Egg story, "The Hedge Knight."

Under the rules of a Trial of Seven, each combatant is allowed to have six companions to fight beside him. Seven against seven. Jaime's six will all be characters from the worlds and stories of George R.R. Martin (that would be me); Rand is free to fill out his six with characters from the works of Robert Jordan AND Brandon Sanderson. (Yes, he can even include Conan, since Jordan wrote about him).

Seven against seven. For all the marbles.

Jaime's challenge.

How do the gods of Suvudu rule?


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(Deleted comment)
Apr. 3rd, 2010 12:53 pm (UTC)
I suspect that Kvothe could have beaten Rand. He's all tricksey and can Name.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:00 pm (UTC)
The other six
Sounds like a great match, Mr. Martin! Do you get to use anyone from the Wildcard universe or just those you personally created?
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:05 pm (UTC)
Include Anguy the Archer at least.

I think Jaime will win this. Everybody loves an underdog, and I think those disillusioned fans of now dead heroes are more inclined of voting for our much loved Lannister.

Edited at 2010-04-02 08:17 pm (UTC)
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:06 pm (UTC)
Hmm, I don't know if that's a good idea. Rand's got (or used to got, at least) the Asha'man, who are like little copies of him.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:09 pm (UTC)
trial of seven
is bad idea.
T-100 can handle Jaime's six alone... and he'll be back for more :D
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:10 pm (UTC)
This is an awesome idea! (PS - Go Jaime!)
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:11 pm (UTC)
Easy. Jaime should have all six companions be women, then use them as human shields.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:55 pm (UTC)
Human shields
Yes. Madbard said it before i could. This is the certain path to victory for Jaime.
Re: Human shields - dgabbott - Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:34 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Human shields - jumpthesnark - Apr. 2nd, 2010 10:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Human shields - quorothorn - Apr. 3rd, 2010 12:28 am (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:11 pm (UTC)
Perhaps your entire universe is on a stedding, which would serve to nullify balefire and all of the other magic. Or just fight it on Stedding Shangtai in Randland.

2 one handed swordsmen is a pretty awesome finale to this contest, no matter who wins. A fantastic result would be for Rand to sheathe the sword to take out Jaime, and both end up dead on the battlefield.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:13 pm (UTC)
Trial of Seven
I get it, this other bloke is a formidable fighter. And he can even have Conan. Fine.

But, with all due respect, if Jaime can enlist Ser Arthur Dayne, the scales have to tip to the Westerosi. Shall we call it the battle for the Dawn? ;)

Oh, and wasn't Gregor Clegane from Westeros too? I seem to remember some implacable chap referring to him as huge and "terrible in battle" - that shouldn't hurt Jaime's chances, right?

And maybe even throw in a Lightning Lord. I've been told that people that can't die are really stubborn in battle...
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:15 pm (UTC)
Bah. I was torn on the battle with Kvothe (as I love Name of the Wind), but Jaime needs to school that red-headed stepchild Rand. And while he's at it, there are lots of other stagnant characters in that series that need to get smacked.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 10:31 pm (UTC)
I wasn't torn with Kvothe. I love GRRM's series but Jaime shouldn't have beat Kvothe. The same with past battles. This is purely a popularity contest and I have no problem with that.

If this contest was based on pure fighting ability, any number of characters from Erikson's Malazan series would make short work of Jaime.
(no subject) - aulus_poliutos - Apr. 3rd, 2010 12:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:16 pm (UTC)
You could of course call on Haviland Tuf and The Ark. I suspect a 30km long seedship would have some impact on the outcome...
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:18 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I don't see Jaime realistically beating Rand, but I don't think that's what this contest is about. It's a popularity contest plain and simple, so if the fans want one character to win it, that outcome can be justified.

These are my two favorite series going up against each other - but sadly not my favorite characters from those series. Now if they had put Arya and Mat up against each other, that would be amazing to read about.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 10:02 pm (UTC)
Meh... thanks but no thanks.
Yeah, thanks for the lone voice of wisdom in this pits of self-applauding ignorance of truth... I lost my small amount of interest by round 2, when Jaime still lived and got all his Hand and feet left where they were before the fight.

That#s not even cheating any more that's suspension of disbelief at it's most ridiculous level ever.
I mean Melee Weapon against long distance spells? Yeah right...
(no subject) - harper_knight - Apr. 3rd, 2010 01:22 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dscotton - Apr. 3rd, 2010 06:21 am (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:19 pm (UTC)
2 of the biggest epic fantasy series go head to head and it is a very tough choice but has to be rand more due to brandon sandersons efforts and less due to robert jordans but seriously been a big fan of wheel of time for years in fact i started reading asoif because jordan had recommended it
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:19 pm (UTC)
Oh, my, that would be FABULOUS. XD Let's hope the gods of Suvudu agree XD
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:20 pm (UTC)
I'm feeling a bit iffy on this.

After all, Rand could have the Dark One and the Creator on his side (or, well, maybe not -- one presume the DO would have to be let out of Shayol Ghul, and that's not going to happen; but the Creator would be enough).

He'd hardly need Perrin, Mat, Lan, and ... maybe Moridin, or Arthur Hawking, after that. Or Conan, certainly, be nice to see the Cimmerian make a come back.

Now, Haviland Tuf is god-like, but on a very different scale.

I don't know, I don't know...

Well, what I do know is that it's a fun idea. I hope Suvudu's editors go for it. I'd like to see who they pick for Rand's side. Bonus points to them if they choose Michael Fallon. ;)
Apr. 3rd, 2010 06:03 am (UTC)
If Rand gets the Dark One and the Creator, wouldn't Jaime then be able to claim both R'hllor and the Lord of Night and Terror?
(no subject) - hippoiathanatoi - Apr. 3rd, 2010 11:06 am (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:24 pm (UTC)
Yeah, but look. Rand is a whiney little b---h (or at least he was when I utterly gave up on those books) and I frankly can't believe he's gotten this far. If Jaime doesn't beat him, I will be terribly disappointed. Manliness has to count for something, here. Right?
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:26 pm (UTC)
Oh, I'm sorry, I was with Jaime all these rounds but it's Rand al'Thor. Nobody can stand against him and I still like the guy.

They are a match in number of hands though :) strangely.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:35 pm (UTC)
Mr Martin! Jamie should fight Rand in a stedding (can't connect or touch the one power while inside these big wooded areas) or for all the gold in castley rock surely Jamie can buy a chain like Mat from Wot but stops sadins (the male side of the one power) from effecting him, including things like balefire (although the problem with the chain is he can still use the one power to pick up big physical thongs and drop them on Jamies head). Tyrion would know these things!

Rand has lost his right (main) hand also, so if Rand can't use the one power on Jamie, then the fight is about as even as it gets!
Apr. 3rd, 2010 08:52 am (UTC)
Fighting in a Stedding is a good idea. Jamie might have a chance if he and Rand fought a solely melee contest.

Outside of a Stedding, Jamie is dead. Period. Even with Mat's amulet, he's dead: Rand could simply mess with the air or ground around Jamie and not Jamie directly.

As a swordsman, Rand is extremely good. However, he's lost his fighting hand, just as Jamie has. OTOH, Rand is a *big* guy, and very physically and mentally tough. Jamie is pretty tough, too, and a great swordsman as well. I think a purely melee fight would be something of a toss up.

But, as I said, if both contestants are allowed to use their full arsenals -- all of their abilities -- then Jamie is doomed.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:36 pm (UTC)
GRRM writing about a fight with Conan in it

Please Suvudu, if you do not allow this I will be very upset
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:46 pm (UTC)
Jaime vs. Rand
It's a fantastic idea George! I hope Jaime wins by enlisting the help of certain young lady who just happens to be a mother of dragons. And Jon has Ghost as well. Berric won't die, so he's first in line. I'd ask Brienne too.

AND another note, I got the tix for Sunday! What a great surprise for my daughter's 20th bday! I hope we can be included for dinner too!
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:46 pm (UTC)
Seven, hmm?
I don't see why Suvudu wouldn't go for it, they've been great sports so far.

Jaime and six others? Here's my roster.
Gregor Clegane, the Mountain that Rides
Balerion, the Black Dread (Jaime beat a dragon, so let's resurrect an old friend)
Jon Snow & Ghost (that counts as one, don'tcha know) (Another Valyrian blade, at that)
Melisandre (She might know a thing or two about this balefire thingy)
Ser Arthur Dayne (previously noted),(3 VS swords are better than two)

Substitute: Red Viper for the unwillingness of any of the above.

Impromptu suggestions, mind you. I think Tyrion serves well as counselor, no need to actually count him in the match. I'm certain these listed folks wouldn't necessarily fight for Jaime, but my understanding of Rand is that he could do some damage to Westeros, so they could well be convinced to join this one time event. I think the roster covers Westeros from fighting strength to magical weapons/ability and degrees of relative cunning.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:11 pm (UTC)
Re: Seven, hmm?
Interesting, just about the side I'd have picked. Good thought about Balerion. Dayne and Snow would take a bit of convincing, though. What about Barristan Selmy?
Re: Seven, hmm? - bloodygenius - Apr. 2nd, 2010 11:12 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Seven, hmm? - scottgoblue314 - Apr. 3rd, 2010 03:36 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Seven, hmm? - firebluespinel - Apr. 3rd, 2010 04:07 am (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:52 pm (UTC)
Ah, very clever...
...Westeros is a world where the power of magic has largely run dry, and if Rand comes a callin' to King's Landing for this test, he may well find that his Balefire isn't so powerful as it was in his own home world. So, without this uber-powerful ultimate weapon at his disposal, the fight will suddenly become much more even, I think.

Tyrion, so very clever for thinking of that one. The Trial of Sevens is just a ruse, a smokescreen for this real ploy of drawing Rand out to a place where he looses his greatest advantage. He's always got more than one trick up his sleeve.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:53 pm (UTC)
Congrats to Jaime, I didn't like the pairing as I love both Jaime and Kvothe, but in the end, I have known and liked Jaime longer, so it had to be him :-).

Concerning Rand, I haven't read any of those books, but if he is really that powerful - who in GRRM's universe would be a match for him? (One of) Dany's dragons? (Would be a nice match for the balefire, don't you think?) Or what about Melisandre? I think mere swordsmanship won't win that one, even if you have Ser Arthur Dayne...

Although Rand deserves to lose just because he killed Roland Deschain!
Apr. 3rd, 2010 09:26 pm (UTC)
Well actually, none in Westeros would be able to match him even if you remove balefire as an option, which isn't fire in any sense at all by the way (Balefire is a ray of light which removes things from existence before they were eliminated). al'Thor is something of a demigod and would simply tear dragons from the skies, set Others ablaze and roast knights in their armours. His main disadvantage would be the fact that he's insane, but since he regained some part of his sanity in the latest book thats.. well.. I think our dear Jaimes toast.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 08:59 pm (UTC)
So, who is actually doing the write-up for Rand Al'Thor, since Robert Jordan passed away?

My money would normally be on Rand, but anybody who could beat Cthulhu ought to be able to handle pretty much anything else, IMHO.
Apr. 3rd, 2010 01:02 pm (UTC)
Brandon Sanderson.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:00 pm (UTC)
While Jaime's victory over Temeraire was a travesty (sorry, but there it is), I'll be rooting for him through and through here...
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