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Jaime's Challenge

The good news: Jaime Lannister pulled it out and defeated Kvothe. Came from 700 votes behind in the final hours to win handily... all thanks to you guys, of course. Thanks to all of you who voted for him... and all of you who voted for his opponent (misguided though you are). And to Patrick Rothfuss, a fine writer and a good sport, who made this round a lot of fun. RIP, Kvothe.

The bad news: Jaime is in the final, and his opponent is Rand al'Thor.

Let me see. Rand is a master swordsman. He's got one of those "heron mark" swords, which is probably the equal of Valyrian steel. He's the reincarnation of the greatest hero and wizard in the history of Robert Jordan's universe. He's got balefire. And then there's that whole ta'veren thing he's got going.

Jaime has gilded armor, a shield, a Valyrian steel sword, and a dwarf.


"Here's my counsel for this round," Tyrion said. "Run away. Don't look back."

Jaime is not impressed. "A Lannister does not run."

"This one does," said Tyrion, "but I figured you'd say that. So here's what you need to do to have ANY hope of surviving this one..."

Jaime's last match was fought on Kvothe's home turf. An away game. Therefore Jaime demands that this final be played out on his own ground, in the tourney grounds outside King's Landing, according to the customs and traditions of Westeros.

And should the wizards of Suvudu grant THAT request, he further demands that this be made a TRIAL OF SEVEN, to honor the Seven Gods. His right to demand such a format is sanctified by ancient Westerosi custom... and my first Dunk & Egg story, "The Hedge Knight."

Under the rules of a Trial of Seven, each combatant is allowed to have six companions to fight beside him. Seven against seven. Jaime's six will all be characters from the worlds and stories of George R.R. Martin (that would be me); Rand is free to fill out his six with characters from the works of Robert Jordan AND Brandon Sanderson. (Yes, he can even include Conan, since Jordan wrote about him).

Seven against seven. For all the marbles.

Jaime's challenge.

How do the gods of Suvudu rule?


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Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:00 pm (UTC)
This is what I feared. Jaime should listen to Tyrion.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:41 pm (UTC)
I've been cheering Jaime all along, but asking for Rand to bring companions?
I just don't think Jaime wants Aviendha, Nynaeve, or Lan???
And that's just a starter list - I think Jaime needs to do this like a Lannister - demand to meet him singly, and CHEAT.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:11 pm (UTC)
Jaime can HANDle him... :)

Seriously, though, one of Jaime's six companions will most probably have to be the Mountain That Rides. Along with him, Jon and his Ghost, and Dany's three dragons... though this sudden alliance would make absolutely no sense, I'm sure. Dany's children will eat Jaime (flame-broiled, and perhaps his siblings and Gregor as well) after they're done helping him, but he will have definitely become champion!
Apr. 2nd, 2010 10:29 pm (UTC)
I really, really doubt that all of Jaime's companions will be from Westeros. GRRM has written other stuff, y'know. :)
(no subject) - malimar - Apr. 3rd, 2010 04:09 am (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:16 pm (UTC)
You know, Rand only has one hand these days ... if gentleman's rules were to apply then maybe Jamie has a very slim chance.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:21 pm (UTC)
How Jamie could win
This might actually be the easiest fight yet for Jamie.

George, if you can get Jamie to fight Rand within a Stedding then Rand will not be able to channel his Murder-Death-Kill Balefire. It would mean a fight with swords. Funny thing is of course that both of our final combatants have lost their main sword hand so it should make for a good fight. However, since Jamie solely relies on his sword skills and therefore probably has practiced more than Rand with his lefty he should come out on top.

Predicted winner (under named circumstances): Jamie
Apr. 2nd, 2010 10:10 pm (UTC)
Re: How Jamie could win
There should be some Princess Bride dialog in there about "not being left handed." Definitely has to take place in a stedding. Jaime needs Rand to go batshit crazy in the middle of the fight to have a reasonable chance.

Lan vs Jaime would be a fairer fight, though I think that Lan would be a favorite with 2 hands.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:25 pm (UTC)

Rand is powerful, sure, but over in our corner we have The Great and Powerful Turtle (who is both great and powerful, duh!)

A surprise TK bitchslap (of battleship-squishing proportions) to open the round might stun Rand long enough to let Jaime get in a killing blow.

Lohengrin should definitely be on the roster, and I love the character, but let's be honest here--Conan would kill him. Killing foes wearing invincible armor is actually listed on the big guy's resume (and that open visor slit is just a game ender, sorry Klaus).

Dani is a must-have, since she can bring the dragons as a force-multiplier (Conan kills one of them too, but dies in the process)....

And from there I have no idea where it would go.

Having Hamilton Tuf sitting in orbit overhead was the very first thing I thought of when you outlined your proposal, but I'm not sure what kind of bioweapon he could whip up that would specifically target Rand and leave Jaime alive. Some manner of ferocious swarming insect that homes in on red hair?

Apr. 3rd, 2010 01:16 am (UTC)
If backup can bring backup as force-multipliers, it starts to get a bit silly. Even disregarding the armies Rand and Jaime have access to (Such as the Asha'man.. even just the six or so loyal ones), some of the guys they could bring as their six would have some serious 'force-multipliers'.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:31 pm (UTC)
There is no way on God's Green Earth that I would ever side with Rand in anything. Those Jordan books that I managed to complete were a torture-test to read. If Jaime were to really lose this, it would be if someone forced him to listen to Rand talk for a day or two.

I'm confident that in the end, the Lannister's will prove that they have the stones to win, while Rand will run back to the skirts of his women.
Opal [blogspot.com]
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:33 pm (UTC)
I just read GRRM's Dreamsongs Vol 1 collection. I think a Hrangan Mind might be the equal of the Dragon Reborn. So do please put one on the team!
Apr. 2nd, 2010 10:13 pm (UTC)
Oh, that's a good call. Hadn't thought of that one.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:39 pm (UTC)
This is basically what fantasy IS right now: A Song of Ice and Fire, The Wheel of Time, and the little guys that got bumped off on the way.

Jaime's a badass, but, really, how do you handle a guy who can level mountains and erase people from existence?

I see Rand winning, personally, but ASoIaF fans are crazy bastards, so we'll just have to see how the voting goes.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:53 pm (UTC)
I like the idea of a Trial of Seven, that would be an awesome fight.

The only problem I have is with Jaime getting the help of Dany's dragons--I doubt she would ever aide the Kingslayer.

Jaime's seven:


Thoros ( the kiss of life )
Sandor Clegane ( skill with sword )
Melisandre ( magic )
Bran ( warg )
Brienne ( skill with sword )
Jaqen H'gar ( assassination )
Apr. 2nd, 2010 09:59 pm (UTC)
When we're talking about a fight between aSoIaF and WoT, I'd vote for aSoIaF every time. But when it comes down to a bastard like Jaime Lannister and Rand al'Thor (who all worlds basically depend on) I'm afraid I'd have to vote for al'Thor. Particularly if Rand can channel.

Now if it comes down to a fight just using swordplay, and a Trial by Seven then the vote becomes a little more difficult. And if Jaime does have women on his side, then it becomes even tougher. Unless, of course, Rand's seven includes someone who can take care of the women. Hmmm.

Regardless of the outcome, I'd love to see who gets chosen for the Seven on both sides.
Apr. 3rd, 2010 12:02 am (UTC)
He could bring along Cadsuane Meliadhrin to handle that aspect of the fight for him.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 10:24 pm (UTC)
Rand may be all that but he is also, in my opinion, annoying as shit. I hope Jaime wins :)
Apr. 2nd, 2010 10:54 pm (UTC)
I don't know if it's been suggested already but Brienne has to be one of Jaime's 6. IT IS KNOWN.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 11:03 pm (UTC)
Rand is the second most annoying character in fantasy (the honour has to go to Richard Rahl, and god help me that I still remember his surname). Since this contest stopped being about who would actually win some rounds ago, I see absolutely no reason to not vote against Rand as a matter of principle.
Apr. 3rd, 2010 07:41 am (UTC)
yeah but the ending of that series was kinda anticlimactic...

he'd just create a new world to send jaime to
Apr. 2nd, 2010 11:05 pm (UTC)
rand is going to open a can of woopass
I like your books George, but unless you find a away to put A'dam on Rand or feed him some forkroot, he can beat everyone in your world by himself. Even if Jaime gets all the dragons on his side and some of the monsters north of the wall he can't win.

Kind of appropriate that the characters of the man who gave you your first quote is going up against you.

Probably the 2 best fantasy writers of the last 20 years.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 11:15 pm (UTC)
No problem. Do 3 of Jaime's 6 get to be Viserion, Drogon, and Rhaegon? Other than Rand himself, the Wheel of Time doesn't have any dragons.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 11:15 pm (UTC)
Potential allies..

Dany -- teenage girl (rand's weakness) + 3 dragons .. she'll be a valuable ally.
Sharra, from the Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr - She's got eons of practice fighting again seven gods.
.. Howabout the daughter in Portraits of his Children- she who made the paintings that come to life for a night? Rand is an inch away from snapping on his good days.. send him a few paintings of the women who have died for him, and he's in trouble for sure.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 11:15 pm (UTC)
The only comment I have to make, that if everything had really been power vs power, the final contestants would have been Cthulu vs Aslan. But since this is a really a popularity contest and even though Jim (was) and Harriet (is) good friends of mine in rl. . . hrm. . .(what a very awkward sentence), I think I'm going to vote for Jaime mainly because Rand has been acting like a horse's ass for the last couple of books.
Apr. 2nd, 2010 11:31 pm (UTC)
I will be voting for Jaime
Congratulations to House Lannister!

The only sad note is that the final will not be against one of my other favorite heroes, Drizzt. RA Salvatore could have penned a fine fight scene.
Apr. 3rd, 2010 12:11 am (UTC)
OOooo I don't know about opening it up to Brandon Sanderson's characters too - that means Rand could bring Vin with him. I don't think Jaime's armor would do well against a Mistborn...
Apr. 3rd, 2010 12:20 am (UTC)
A Lannister pays his debts
Regardless of how the battle goes, while Jaime is fighting, Tyrion needs to get into the dress/pants/cadin'sor of Elaine, Min and Aviendha. If he wins, the Dragon will be reminded of his fight by the stunted little Lannisters for ever more.
Apr. 3rd, 2010 12:32 am (UTC)
Cuendilar and All the gold in Casterly Rock
Jaime is now head of his house, is he not? Casterly Rock is the richest house in Westeros, is it not?
Have Jaime upgrade a suit of armor to Cuendilar, a shield to Cuendilar, and a sword to Cuendilar. Good to go, he becomes immune to magic so long as he can keep his suit on and his shield raised. I don't believe it would be overly heavy either, probably lighter than his regular armor.
House Lannister can do without being so rich for a while, if it means keeping Jaime alive.
Put an end to Rand Al'thor and his overpowered and lame balefire. Leave him with only one chance of beating Jaime... reading to him the Wheel of Time book series...
Apr. 3rd, 2010 01:12 am (UTC)
I'm sorry, Mr. Martin. Jaime is one of my favorite characters of all time.. I can see how he MIGHT have been able to beat Kvothe.. but he hasn't got a chance against Rand.

And then you ASK for a situation in which Rand, already a swordmaster, battle-mage and ta'veren, can bring along his two pocket ta'veren? I don't think you really thought this through. :P
Apr. 3rd, 2010 01:21 am (UTC)
I could have sworn
that Rand lost his left hand, not his right. Also, with all that steel being worn by the GRRM contingent, Vin or Kelsier would have a field day. Include Raoden and his Aon Dor, and well, I think the Jordan/Sanderson side has a significant advantage, even if the fight happened in a steadding to negate the use of the one power.
Apr. 3rd, 2010 01:23 am (UTC)
Aaaaargh. I am finally truly conflicted.

Are you sure you want 7 on either side? If Rand bonds with Nynaeve, Elayne, Egwene, Aviendha, Moiraine, and Verin, even without one of the many angreal and sa'angreal in their possession, Westeros is easily a sunken island without their taking a step outside Caemlyn.
Apr. 3rd, 2010 01:25 am (UTC)
When you say "according to the customs of Westeros", does that mean no use of the One Power? That would make it a lot easier (although if you include some Wild Cards, well, maybe it's more equal even with the One Power).

If you don't get the Trial of Seven, though, then you should probably have Jaime ask that it take place in a stedding (where Rand can't use the One Power). It then basically comes down to how well Jaime can deal with Rand's swordsmanship and ta'veren-ness (having Cersei flash him might be a good way to distract Rand long enough for Jaime to get a hit in).
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