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Iron Guy

SPOILERS abound in what follows. Read at your own risk.

So I saw IRON MAN 2 last night. Well after the rest of the world, yes. What can I say? I've been kind of busy.

I enjoyed the film well enough. The first one was better, but this one kept me entertained from start to finish. Lots of iron action and stuff blowing up. I certainly didn't feel any need to demand my money back or anything.

Which is not to say I don't have some gripes, cavils, and observations. I mean, I know this iron guy, all the way back to the beginning. Which I say as an original member of the Merry Marvel Marching Society.

Iron Man is a guy in an armored suit. Cool. So in the first movie, he fights another guy in an armored suit. Well, okay. I mean, Iron Man in the comics fought a lot of guys in armored suits too. There was the Crimson Dynamo, there was Titanium Man, there was... well, you get the idea. And the movie kicked along well enough.

So here's the second movie, and who does he fight? ANOTHER guy in an armored suit. Plus a bunch of drones. Yawn. The drones were about as effective as the drones from STAR WARS. They're just there to get blown apart. No personality, no menace, no suspense.

And Whiplash in his armored suit ended up being much wimpier than Jeff Bridges in his armored suit from the first movie. And what was with those electric whips? Sure, they looked cool, and they seemed very dangerous at first when he was slicing Grand Prix cars apart with every stroke, shearing right through the steel. So how come he couldn't shear right through Iron Man's steel armor (and the limbs beneath) the same way? It's not as if he never hit him.

All those issues of Iron Man to work from, and the scriptwriters couldn't find a better villain? C'mon. I mean, okay, okay, the Mandarin is probably pretty much off limits these days, on political correctness/ yellow peril grounds, fine, let's scratch him. But hey, why not Hawkeye? He began as an Iron Man villain. Teamed with the Black Widow, who was a Russian agent before she ever heard of SHIELD. I love looking at Scarlett Johansson as much as the next guy, but she was pretty much wasted here. Even her big action sequence, going down a hallway and kicking the crap out of a bunch of security guys, was much less effective than the virtually identical sequence in KICKASS, where Hit Girl goes down a hall and kills a few dozen Mafia goons.

I will say that Mickey Rourke did a nice job portraying Whiplash. And the secondary villain, the rival armiger Hammer, was a hoot. Though his role too seemed a bit of a reprise of Jeff Bridges from the first film. Just as the hostile senator seemed a retread of the hostile senator from the first X-Men film. C'mon, guys, there are hundreds and hundreds of Iron Man comics to mine, give us something new.

This thing of superdudes battling it out with supervillians with the exact same power is getting old, though. They did the same thing in the HULK film (the good one, not that awful Ang Lee thing), where the giant green gamma-ray-irradiated Hulk fights another giant green gamma-ray irradiated guy, the Abomination. It was okay, but really... would have been much more interesting if they'd mixed it up, and had the Hulk fight the guys in the armored suits while Iron Man took on the Abomination. Actually, having Iron Man fight the Hulk would have been the best of all... which is why I am looking forward to the eventual AVENGERS film.

And speaking of the Avengers...


The little throwaway bit with Captain America's shield was very cool. But I thought they would do more with it. I knew there would be a post-credits epilogue scene, as in the last IRON MAN movie, but didn't know what it would be... so when I saw that I thought maybe it would Cap showing up in Tony's lab and demanding back his shield.

Instead we got the scene in New Mexico. After a bit of misdirection. We're supposed to think the SHIELD agent has gone to New Mexico to deal with something involving the Hulk, of course. I mean, it's always been the Hulk stomping around the desert. Instead we get Thor's hammer in a crater. No, no, no. That's wrong on so many levels. Thor's hammer does not belong in a crater in New Mexico, it belongs in a cave in Norway. And anyway, if it had been buried for any length of time, it would have turned back into a stick. Do these guys presume to rewrite the immortal Marvel mythology as devised by Stan Lee??? Sacrilege! Burn them!

(Good rule for all superhero movies: the closer they stick to the original comics, the better they are. The more they change and add and fiddle with, the more they stink).

I now have deep forebodings about the THOR movie. But then, I always had keep forebodings about the THOR movie. Thor is a great character in the comics, but on screen I fear he's going to seem like a kind of cross between Conan and the Swedish Chef.

And in conclusion, let me say that if they don't include Ant-Man and the Wasp in their AVENGERS movie, it won't be the real Avengers. Ant-Man Rules!!!


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Jun. 9th, 2010 11:16 pm (UTC)
Rumors abound that the next Iron Man villain will indeed be the Mandarin (via aintitcool.com).

Thor is my favorite Marvel comic hero. I think it will get done right. Marvel has more control over these movies than ever before...
Jun. 10th, 2010 01:30 pm (UTC)
Favreau's been on record as viewing the Mandarin as something akin to Palpatine from the Star Wars series. When the Mandarin finally shows up on camera - and the Ten Rings organization from the first film is intended to foreshadow his existence - it's going to be a Big Deal.
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:18 pm (UTC)
I'll do you a favor and not show Stephen this post so you don't get into the whole Avengers/JLA thing: had enough of that on the road :->

My review of IRON MAN is here if you want to compare notes.
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:21 pm (UTC)
My understanding is that Ant-Man will be in Avengers, should be played by Nathan Fillion of Firefly/Serenity/Castle fame, and will be getting his own film in 2012. So there you go!
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:28 pm (UTC)
Do you have a link where you got that info? I would like to share it around.
(no subject) - wahcrysob - Jun. 10th, 2010 01:03 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dewline - Jun. 10th, 2010 01:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:30 pm (UTC)
Thor's hammer in the crater happened in the Civil War timeline, so it's not really that shocking that it was transferred over into the movies... just in case Marvel ever decides they want to go that route.
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:18 am (UTC)
Obviously this means that Doctor Doom is returning from Hell.
Iron Guy - citizenhum - Jun. 10th, 2010 12:54 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - grrm - Jun. 10th, 2010 12:57 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - citizenhum - Jun. 10th, 2010 01:24 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - nestdweller - Jun. 10th, 2010 01:55 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - oneminutemonkey - Jun. 10th, 2010 01:57 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - notthebuddha - Jun. 10th, 2010 02:10 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - joechummer - Jun. 10th, 2010 04:15 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - pimpstergust - Jun. 10th, 2010 01:40 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - cvmguy - Jun. 10th, 2010 04:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Iron Guy - akodo7 - Jun. 13th, 2010 06:19 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:31 pm (UTC)
I dunno about you, but personally I would pay big money to see a Conan / Swedish Chef mashup movie. Or a "Conan Vs Chef" showdown (chowdown?).
Jun. 11th, 2010 02:08 pm (UTC)
Me too!!
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:31 pm (UTC)
re: mjollnir being "buried for any length of time" - I sort of assumed that was an IMPACT crater, not a digging-up crater.
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:10 am (UTC)
ditto - I'm assuming Thor is about to come screaming in looking for where he 'dropped' it.
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:32 pm (UTC)
I'd disagree with your reading of the Thor bit. They say "we've found HIM", rather than it, implying that the crater was actually from Thor himself crashing down from the heavens. My best bet is that it actually takes places after the Thor film chronologically, in which Blake will find the stick, not SHIELD, and blah blah blah etc.
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:34 pm (UTC)
a: The hammer wasn't actually in the crater, though I'm not sure that gives you any relief.

b: http://www.youtube.com/ItsJustSomeRandomGuy#p/u/0/IyPh8aIdR-4

Jun. 9th, 2010 11:37 pm (UTC)
Elements of the Thor hammer in a crater scene were straight out of Fantastic Four 536-537
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:40 pm (UTC)
I remembered seeing something about plans for Ant Man recently and tracked it down:


Edgar Wright is attached to it at the moment.
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:44 pm (UTC)
What?? What?? He says the Ant-Man movie is going to feature BOTH Hank Pym and Scott Lang???

Move sacrilege. Has to be Hank Pym all the way. They can bring in Scott Lang ten years from now. It's Hank in the Avengers, with his wife Wasp.

And how can anyone call Pym a "goody two-shoes?" He's one of the most troubled Marvel characters. Ant-Man, Giant Man, Goliath, Yellowjacket... he can't even decide on his name. Or his powers.
(no subject) - saladinahmed - Jun. 9th, 2010 11:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - k26dp - Jun. 10th, 2010 01:31 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - sgnpcomix - Jun. 10th, 2010 12:15 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - qualistarian - Jun. 10th, 2010 12:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - wyldemusick - Jun. 10th, 2010 11:18 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:43 pm (UTC)
I read a bunch of the early Avengers comics (starting from #1) and... I think Ant Man kinda sucks. There's a reason they kept changing his name and his abilities in an attempt to make him more interesting. But if he really is going to be played by Nathan Fillion as the above poster claims, then I'll give him a chance.
Jun. 10th, 2010 01:35 pm (UTC)
Much like Aquaman, Ant-Man is a concept that works a lot better in his own stories than when he "teams up". The Ant-Man and Wasp stories from Tales To Astonish are some really fun gonzo Silver Age stories.
Jun. 9th, 2010 11:54 pm (UTC)
I haven't seen IM2 yet, but I was disappointed that they mershed up Crimson Dynamo and Whiplash. Because, while Whiplash is undoubtedly a second-rate villain re: powers (and on a popcorn level would have needed a badass secondary villain to back him up for the 'big fight' factor), Whiplash as a CHARACTER was great in the comics (at least back in the 80s when he was called Blacklash) -- he was great *because* he was second-rate. He was basically a washed-up mob hit man perpetually trying to make his name in the underworld. From that perspective, Rourke's playing him could have been a bit of absolutely freakin' *brilliant* casting. A squandered opportunity.

But then, I'm the 'human drama' dork who jumped up and down when ex-addict Robert Downey Jr. got cast in the first movie, b/c HELLO! ALCOHOLIC TONY STARK! But, unsurprisingly, the first film didn't go there.
Jun. 10th, 2010 02:57 am (UTC)
agreed about Rourke
Never cared for Whiplash, but Rourke playing him could have been awesome. There were even moments in the movie where I thought this character was going to be a great movie villain.... but then they just never fully developed what they could have with Rourke.
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:04 am (UTC)
I was going to repeat what was posted above about it being an impact crater and a reference to the recent Civil War comics, but instead I'll just ask why you didn't like the Ang Lee Hulk? I'm just curious.
Jun. 11th, 2010 02:16 pm (UTC)
I know I'm not George, but I shall respond by simply saying, "Gamma-Poodle"
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:05 am (UTC)
Just on the Thor's Hammer point...

I'm sure Molijnor was found in New Mexico during the Civil War series. Just saying. my 2p and all...
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:07 am (UTC)
Remember that Fury was constantly saying that something more important was going on in NM during the whole film..I expect that the Thor movie will take place concurrently with IM2, and the crater scene falls right at the act 2/act 3 division.
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:11 am (UTC)
Iron man's suit is a steel-titanium alloy, so in theory it would be harder to cut through than regular steel. Also, the suit generates a forcefield around it that makes it nearly invulnerable. That may clear up why Whiplash could carve through the Indy cars but not Iron man's suit as much (not the the average movie-goer would get that point).
I had the same thoughts about Thor's hammer in the desert. Completey the wrong area. If you are going to tease us with comments about a disturbance in the Southwest, You had better give us a nod to the Hulk.
In the last scene with Tony and Fury there was a monitor with a world map on it. There were circles all over the map. I was thinking it might be a Shield equivalent of Cerebro, or a machine that tracks super-powered beings. One thing I happened to notice was a circle in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean. That screams Namor to me.
Jun. 10th, 2010 04:46 pm (UTC)
In that same interview scene, one of the monitors in the background is showing a news broadcast. Look closely, and it's the same one from Hulk describing the confrontation at the University. So the timeline places most of IM2 before the first 1/2 of the Hulk movie, and therefore the Stark-Ross chat in the end of Hulk comes after the events of IM2. Fun times putting it all together!
Iron Man suit = better than NASCAR - akodo7 - Jun. 13th, 2010 06:28 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:26 am (UTC)
"Do these guys presume to rewrite the immortal Marvel mythology as devised by Stan Lee??? Sacrilege! Burn them!"

This is the saddest thing about comic to movie adaptations. They have to appeal to the broadest audience, and in doing so they kinda step on the veteran fans. But these veteran fans weren't enough to keep the publishers up, so here come the boiled-down movies.

All that said, it's kind of relieving to see Stan Lee playing along nicely. Seems to me he still cares more about the spirit of the comics, doesn't take these changes too hard.
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:35 am (UTC)
You know, they were looking for extras for THOR in Santa Fe, where they were apparently filming some scenes. Did you stumble across any of the filming, I wonder? The extras casting call was back in January, not sure when filming actually took place.

If you're interested, here is a detailed concept rendering of Thor, and this was an official teaser photo of Chris Hemsworth (George Kirk in Star Trek's opening) as Thor.
Jun. 10th, 2010 12:38 am (UTC)
Regarding Thor, they could be following the Ultimates re-write canon, where they had him being some high-functioning schizophrenic who got his mitts on some extremely advanced technology. (The hammer and the shirt/belt.)

Which doesn't make it the slightest bit better, but still. Could explain the New Mexico thing.
Jun. 10th, 2010 01:01 am (UTC)
Iron Guy
I hope not nestdweller, but thankfully I don't see anything to worry me that that might be the case. it seems more likely they're borrowing from the recent JMS Thor stuff (and more specifically in this case, very much from the Thor foreshadowing JMS did in Fantastic Four before that) which was, for my money, very very good. this is what I'm hoping for now. :)
(no subject) - mouseferatu - Jun. 10th, 2010 05:35 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - hippoiathanatoi - Jun. 10th, 2010 09:37 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - lawrencegillies - Jun. 10th, 2010 11:15 am (UTC) - Expand
Jun. 10th, 2010 01:59 am (UTC)
the avengers
As much as I know you hate the comic reboots, the new avengers, entitled the ultimates, was bad ass. Iron man, admittedly has a tad much sci-fi to his back story...but Ant Man was finally made interesting. Sorry, George.
And Ultimate Hulk vs Wolverine and Ultimate Human (Iron man vs hulk) are FANTASTIC stories, too. I don't remember Stan Lee starting a story with Wolverine not having his body from the waist down on page 1...and keeping the remainder of the story cool without relying on gore. Not bashing Stan. I'm just saying there's room for next generation writing.

Afterall, Mr Martin....aren't you a latter day generation fantasy writer that excludes elves from fantasy? Kind of a nu fantasy if you ask me!
I was born in 1980, so I can't say I lived thru too much of the old old generations of Marvel awesomeness. Although I do remember some good eras during the late 80's and early 90's. It's all good to me.

Jun. 10th, 2010 02:01 am (UTC)
I've gotta say, George, I was with you all the way through your post until that last line. I just can't get behind Ant-Man. No way does he rule.

But I agree with you completely on everything else. Especially having superheroes fighting super villains with the same powers. That's so old.
Jun. 11th, 2010 02:23 pm (UTC)
Agreed. I actually do not believe that any of Henry Pym's characters "rule". I thought Yellow Jacket looked the coolest of them though. The best thing he did, in my opinion, was to create Ultron.
Jun. 10th, 2010 02:28 am (UTC)
Ant-Man AND Jennifer Jones, IMO :)
Jun. 10th, 2010 03:10 am (UTC)
Captain Hammer as Hank Pym/Ant-Man!!!!
That would be awesome, Nathan Fillion is by far one of my favorite actors. "Man's gotta do what a man's gotta do..."
Jun. 10th, 2010 03:27 am (UTC)
I seem to be the only one who looked at that model of an "atom" and thought, "you know why you didn't notice it looked like an atom? Because it doesn't look like an atom at all!" srsly, if you're working with particle physics at the level they *claim* to be, I want to see some freaking sigma orbitals! *sigh* I suppose the makers of the movie don't make them for first year university students, but even still, high school students should be wondering how there could possibly be a element not already known that was stable, since each element known is distinguished by how many protons it has, in ascending order, and there are no missing numbers until you get to high enough numbers that nothing is stable. A new isotope I could buy, but not a new element, not without a more plausible explanation.
Jun. 10th, 2010 03:36 am (UTC)
It sounds like they're going to put an Ultimates spin on the Avengers movie so I'd almost be surprised about Ant Man and Wasp, since their relationship was pretty dark. (I'd still like them in the movie though!)
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George R.R. Martin
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