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Should Math Be Taught in Schools?

((Sad to say, this parody is hardly exaggerated at all. A few of the answers are almost verbatim to the actual answers of the Miss USA contestants to "Should Evolution Be Taught in Schools." Go watch that video on YouTube and see for yourself)).

(((There are days I think I am living in the world of Kornbluth's "Marching Morons." Just look at reality TV, and remember the hit show in his story)))

(((I am vastly pleased that the eventual Miss USA winner, and GAME OF THRONES fan, does "believe in evolution." And presuambly in math as well))).



Jul. 5th, 2011 01:45 am (UTC)
There's a difference between observation/evidence-based scientific theory, and math, which is pure logic. Not fair to compare the two.

I'm a believer in evolution, but it is a theory, and I don't begrudge a parents' right to decide the type of curriculum that's best for their children.

I don't think it's fair to characterize skeptics of evolution as "Marching Morons". Ridiculing skeptics into silence is an all to common practice when it comes to science.

Jul. 5th, 2011 02:41 am (UTC)
Evolution was a theory when Charles Darwin wrote ON THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES. It has long since been proved, to the satisfaction of anyone with any understanding of science.

"Skeptics" of evolution deserve the same respect we give flat earthers.
Jul. 5th, 2011 02:53 am (UTC)
Proven? Proven how? Do we still understand where life itself comes from? Does anyone have a red phone to God?

Sorry. Human beings make no sense at all in accordance with evolution if you look at every other species on the planet Earth. Care to explain why we all aren't still just rock throwers?
(no subject) - monksp - Jul. 5th, 2011 06:09 am (UTC) - Expand
Neandrathals - vikjha - Jul. 13th, 2011 08:11 pm (UTC) - Expand
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the missing link? - grrm - Jul. 6th, 2011 10:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: the missing link? - xmalanthax - Jul. 6th, 2011 11:51 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: the missing link? - douglaswweb - Jul. 7th, 2011 04:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - malimar - Jul. 7th, 2011 04:55 pm (UTC) - Expand
(Suspicious comment)
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(no subject) - Anthony Rosa - Jul. 5th, 2011 07:09 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - blessedrelease - Jul. 6th, 2011 11:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - pimpstergust - Jul. 5th, 2011 12:26 pm (UTC) - Expand
Evolution and what is really is.... - tstanton - Jul. 6th, 2011 06:06 am (UTC) - Expand
awesome - vikjha - Jul. 13th, 2011 08:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
Michael E. Brammer
Jul. 5th, 2011 02:55 am (UTC)
A Scientific Theory is an explanation of facts into
a broader explanation of those facts. In that sense evolution is a theory (as well as the Theory of Relativity for example). The facts which support evolution include clear lines of common descent seen in the fossil record, in DNA, in anatomy, and in the development of embryos to just mention a few.

While many of the mechanisms of evolution have been uncovered, I think we still have things to discover. As we learn more, the Theory of Evolution will continue to evolve so to speak. Just as Newton and probably Einstein were not the last word in gravity, mass, and velocity - all the mechanisms of evolution are still to be discovered (if they are ever found). Time erases past events so we may never have a complete understanding, but the search is very exciting.
Jul. 5th, 2011 03:04 am (UTC)
Creationists have tried to circumvent this annoying fact by inventing "macro" and "micro" evolution. In truth they are the same thing, but that's how these folks reconcile the facts with their faith.

Jul. 5th, 2011 03:21 am (UTC)
I must say...
While I sympathize with your position Mr. Martin, It's also good to realize that as science improves we gain a fuller understanding. I don't think Science ever figures anything out for certain--certainly it's the closest we have to a proper understanding, but give due time I think our current understanding of evolution will be replaced by something else.
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Jul. 5th, 2011 04:55 am (UTC)
I think that a huge part of the issue always comes back to the word theory. Theory in Actual Science means something different that we use it in every day parlance. Almost nothing in any scientific discipline is classified as a Law. The use of the word Theory is basically a shorthand for "We've done a metric fuckton of experiments that all produce results that are predicted by our hypothesis. It's entirely possible that invisible unicorns are using weaponized fairy dust to cause this to happen every time we run our experiment so we won't say this is an actual, undeniable fact, but after exhaustive observation, it always holds true."

Most people don't understand that there's a very significant difference in meaning between the words hypothesis and theory, though, because it's not emphasized much if at all in high school science classes, and so use them interchangeably. Because of that, they see "Theory of evolution" and don't realize that it's not on the same level as my theory that my boss is a jerk because he got too many wedgies in elementary school.
(no subject) - AmberLee Dingess - Jul. 5th, 2011 05:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
Blaž Heij
Jul. 5th, 2011 07:34 am (UTC)
To be a bit more precise, evolution is a theory, but the word theory as used in science doesn't mean the same as when used by most people in everyday language.

What people call a theory in everyday life is actually called a hypothesis in science. A theory as used in science is a hypothesis that is well supported by evidence and would pass for fact in everyday life.
Jul. 13th, 2011 09:00 pm (UTC)
to ningrim up top, in science when something is a theory it's pretty much fact. a hypothesis is when we are uncertain. there may be multiple hypothesis' to explain a phenomenon but when something is labeled a theory in the scientific community it's like gold star of approval (but scientists, those skeptic assholes, i guess dont want to call anything fact cuz theyre always waiting to be proven wrong... i think?)

to GRRM, i believe in evolution, but... i read a lot of these posts... even from an anthropologist, apparently, and a lot of these people keep saying EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ORIGINS OF LIFE... really?
um, sure natural selection, genetic mutation, drift and flow are actually about change over time in life but excuse me in evolutionary science there IS a HISTORY of LIFE and it DOES begin with HIGHLY ENERGETIC CHEMICAL REACTIONS. ALSO, there is a TREE OF LIFE which talks about how all life came from a common ancestor 4 Billion yrs ago which is also a part of Evolutionary sciences. so um... what are all u people talking about?

This is why some of the smarter bible guys will say, i believe in natural selection but not in evolution. Also, Kaplan 2010 Physiology review videos the lecturer say (best of my memory) "...evolution isn't fact. evolution says the complexity of life came from nothing. you know what is fact though? natural selection, that you have to know...". i mean you may not agree with him GRRM, but the man does have an understanding of science.

Neways, yes it should be taught, cuz although it's only a theory (with facts in it) it's the best one we have so far, by far. If you need spirituality to coincide with science start talking about wave function collapse, there's room for God in there... and probably no ones gonna figure that out for some time to come. Thank you, come again.
Aug. 3rd, 2011 04:20 pm (UTC)
Sir... you are my hero.
Javiera Carreo
Jul. 5th, 2011 03:26 am (UTC)
The theory of evolution says that the the living creatures are changed by their enviorment, an example would be a tree in the savanna that is eated by the giraffes, and that by time developed spines, so the giraffes stoped eating that kind of three (some year laters, some giraffes started to be born with a thicker tong so they could eat the tree), that is the theory of evolution as it is known now, and its proved by many studies, that is diferent to the theory that says that humans come from the monkey wish has not been proved yet.

PS: sorry for the english.
Jul. 5th, 2011 03:40 am (UTC)
In everyday use, a theory is a guess or a hunch. When scientists use the word theory, they mean it's a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations. The terminology is confusing, but yes, evolution is a fact. There was no competing hypothesis that better fitted the observed reality.

Whining that scientists "ridicule" people into "silence" is you basically admitting you can't prove your theory.
(no subject) - xmalanthax - Jul. 5th, 2011 12:23 pm (UTC) - Expand
Jul. 5th, 2011 04:19 am (UTC)
"Theory" in science does not mean the same thing as in "I have a theory ... it could be bunnies," a hypothesis or supposition. A scientific theory is a systematized organization of facts and rules of observed behavior that forms a complete and consistent explanation of the phenomenon in question, and to which no informed person would refuse assent to its correctness. That is what "the theory of evolution" is. To say "it is [just/only] a theory" is the equivalent of the contestant in the parody video saying "Math should be left out of the equation ... I don't mean the math equation, just the, y'know, equation."
Jul. 5th, 2011 06:22 am (UTC)
But any scepticism directed at scientific theories should also be scientific, that is it should rise from someone using the scientific method to test a theory and find that it doesn't explain what was thought it explains. If the criticism is of a religious nature, it doesn't belong into classes that teach science.

I don't even think one can say that "one believes in evolution" - either one rejects the whole scientific method or one doesn't.

And as for parents deciding "the type of curriculum that's best for their children" - as far as I understand the US system, they get to decide the curriculum for everyone's children, not only their own. Is it fair to have children's science classes following a particular interpretation of religious scripture whether or not the children actually follow that religion, in a country that prides itself on a separation between church and state?

And I say all that as a Christian following a denomination that does not take the Bible literally, and does neither use scripture to replace scientific method nor tries to force one religion on everyone else.
Jul. 5th, 2011 04:18 pm (UTC)
For the record, gravity is a theory too. As is general relativity. And we teach these things in schools as fact with no debate. A "theory" is the closest science will get to saying is absolutely true.


George R.R. Martin
George R. R. Martin

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