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Schubert Withdraws

Edmund R. Schubert, the editor of ORSON SCOTT CARD'S INTERGALACTIC MEDICINE SHOW, has announced his decision to withdraw from the Hugo race. Schubert was a nominee in the category Best Editor, Short Form. He had been included on both the Sad Puppy and Rabid Puppy slates, though apparently without his knowledge.

He has issued a statement explaining the reasons for his withdrawal, which you can read here:

Sasquan had previously announced that the Hugo ballot in now at the printers, so Schubert's name will still appear, but he has indicated that he will refuse the award, should he win it.

I understand the reasons for his withdrawal and applaud his integrity. It cannot be easy to walk away from a major award, perhaps one that you have dreamed of someday winning. And this takes courage as well; like the others who have dropped off the Puppy slate, he will undoubtedly come in for a certain amount of angry barking from the kennels.


Apr. 28th, 2015 11:29 pm (UTC)
Does this mean he'll have time to finish that damned symphony?
Devdeep Roy Choudhury
Apr. 29th, 2015 12:40 am (UTC)
What happens when entire fandom votes
Mr. Martin, in one of your previous posts(Fanageddon), you pointed out that everyone needs to vote. I assume you meant that not just for this year but also for upcoming years. I was wondering if that happens and if all kinds of fans vote then won't it already be that the most popular books and the bestsellers always end up winning? I understand that it is better if all fandom votes than some group taking over the awards but would it make some really good books incapable of winning if they are not popular.
Apr. 29th, 2015 12:47 am (UTC)
Re: What happens when entire fandom votes
Quite so.

The analogy I keep coming back to is for movies. The Hugos are the Oscars of SF. Some people want them to be the People's Choice awards. I don't. There's a place for the People's Choice awards, but there's also a place for an award chosen by a smaller but more knowledgeable electorate.
Re: What happens when entire fandom votes - peerchen - Apr. 29th, 2015 07:27 am (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 29th, 2015 01:02 am (UTC)
sorry for going off topic
George earlier you mentioned something in an interview about a surprise twist about certain characters
but didn't know whether or not to through with ithave you made up your mind? And any chance you will tell us which characters this twist involves sorry about these off topic posts but I really want to know the answer
Apr. 29th, 2015 01:31 am (UTC)
Re: sorry for going off topic
Sorry, no, off topic.
Apr. 29th, 2015 01:17 am (UTC)
I thought it was a class act of him to put together a free issue; I intend to take advantage of it.
Apr. 29th, 2015 01:35 am (UTC)
Seems the hour of the phoenix is upon the Hugo powers that be. Otherwise, good people will need to do bad things to protect that which they love.
Apr. 29th, 2015 01:50 am (UTC)
The Puppy Wars have reached international attention, to wit, the internationally broadcast CBC arts and culture radio program q had a segment today on the issue: http://www.cbc.ca/radio/q/schedule-for-tuesday-april-28-1.3048173/jeet-this-week-the-sci-fi-boys-club-strikes-back-1.3048255

Depending on one's point of view, a simplistic or succinct definition, but generally unhappy - if, the broadcaster qualifies, one cares about such things. Sigh.
Apr. 29th, 2015 02:09 am (UTC)
It's time to let this go and let it play out. To continue on makes you start to sound like a child who has had their toy taken away from them.

"Short as life is, we make it still shorter by the careless waste of time."
-Victor Hugo

And yes, I know the Hugo awards are not named after him.
Apr. 29th, 2015 03:40 pm (UTC)
Re: Enough
What are you, George's Mother?
Re: Enough - thecalvinhobbes - Apr. 29th, 2015 07:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Enough - dragonborngurl - Apr. 29th, 2015 08:54 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Enough - thecalvinhobbes - Apr. 30th, 2015 01:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Enough - dragonborngurl - Apr. 30th, 2015 11:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Enough - grrm - May. 1st, 2015 04:03 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: Enough - Frank Probst - Apr. 30th, 2015 03:36 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Enough - thecalvinhobbes - Apr. 30th, 2015 01:43 pm (UTC) - Expand
Bob Jenson
Apr. 29th, 2015 03:17 am (UTC)
Wow, I think that was one of the most well-reasoned "I decline in advance" pieces I have read. Makes me want to vote for him now, but will respect his wishes. I confess I can let an author's (or artist - I had a hard time enjoying anything from Cat Stevens after his comments back in the day over "The Satanic Verses") views color my enjoyment of his or her work, and Card's infamy turned me away from wanting to read anything else by him - or what is associated with him. I know several people that can separate the work from the person behind it, but it's just too hard for me. I remember liking Tom Clancy's books, realizing fully that he was far to the right of me politically but what the hey, the man could write a mean WW III story. And then I read an interview with him and...that was it. So I feel bad that I ignore something like the IGMS because it I might really enjoy it, but it's hard to overcome my preconceptions (and I'm sure some would call it intolerance). But hey, I can listen to Cat Stevens now without feeling bad.
Apr. 29th, 2015 05:37 am (UTC)
When I read authors from past centuries, I usually manage to make a separation, but then I also have a more literary approach to their work.

I can't do it for the things I read for entertainment though, where I live in the auhtor's head worlds for a while.

I can read and appreaciate Plato, but I can't read Marion Zimmer Bradley after knowing what she did to her daughter.
(no subject) - dragonborngurl - Apr. 29th, 2015 04:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - flake_sake - Apr. 30th, 2015 01:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - dragonborngurl - Apr. 30th, 2015 11:17 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - gement - Apr. 29th, 2015 06:06 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - Bob Jenson - Apr. 30th, 2015 03:52 am (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 29th, 2015 05:08 am (UTC)
I fail to understand something.
Edmund R. Schubert, I can't respect him enough. He handled this with a certain amount of respect and grace not seen often. It can't be easy when a group grabs a hold of your name and tries to make you a knight for their cause. When you never even got a say in the matter.

Also the fact they ruin an award chance for you that many authors would love to have. On top of that they also want to take the award you love away in the future if everything doesn't go how they want it.

The puppies actions really speak for themselves. They may have started with good intentions (as Edmund said). But Cujo was once also a loyal fun loving dog. Old Yeller was also a great dog too. We both know how the stories of those puppies ended. They turned into rabid beasts who wanted to rip your throat out just from looking at them. They just wanted blood.
Apr. 29th, 2015 05:27 am (UTC)
Hm, didn't Togerson claim he contacted everyone he put on the slate? This is the fourth (?) nomine now who says, he was not contacted.

Apr. 29th, 2015 06:30 pm (UTC)
How they may have been contacted
"Mr. Schubert? My name's Ted. Would you mind much if I talked your work up on my blog and suggested you for the Hugo ballot?"

"Oh, go right ahead! Thank you for your support."

[PuppyGhazi happens]

"What the frackitty-frack--No one said anything about a slate!"
Re: How they may have been contacted - flake_sake - Apr. 30th, 2015 01:24 pm (UTC) - Expand
Apr. 29th, 2015 08:18 am (UTC)
Wow, you guys are sure granting the Puppies a lot of power. They can make you lose by simply putting you on their slates! Meanwhile, their own don't automatically lose by being put on the slates. Given the Puppies' numbers, what happens next should be kind of obvious for someone who has written complex factional politics.

The only solution is to limit the Hugo voting to approved progressives. That will keep the reactionary Human Wavers from winning.

Which sinks the Hugos: they become merely the award granted by your own faction, to members of the same faction. They become irrelevant to science fiction fandom.

If you see another way out, I'd be interested in knowing about it.
Stevie Gamble
Apr. 29th, 2015 07:44 pm (UTC)
But there has never been a situation when there were any constraints on who could vote beyond paying up for the supporting/attending Worldcons; the idea that fans have, in some mysterious fashion, been deprived of that in the past is straightforwardly delusional.

There are all sorts of bizarre claims flying around, but the bottom line is that VD's slate was far more successful than Brad and Larrie's, and they are now in the process of discovering that they are superfluous. We don't know what the numbers are, and will not until after Worldcon, but given that $40 is not exactly serious money it is probable that there were sufficient trolls willing to pay up for the sheer joy of destruction.

What GRRM is doing is cutting the ground from under their feet; he has, with complete courtesy, demonstrated that the Sad Puppies don't actually have a case.

I have read quite a bit of the stuff still in the running from VD's stables, and it does reflect the insanity of a guy living in Italy purporting to be the strong defender of straight white guys suffering in the US from such evils as women being allowed to vote ant attend school. VD is, of course, perfectly entitled to believe that the Taliban were right to murder girls who wanted to get an education; Brad and Larrie chose to ally themselves to someone who believes that throwing acid in the faces of young women is a useful strategy to remedy the defects of Western society.

Whilst I would undoubtedly be classified as a liberal I have rather more faith in most conservatives than you do; very few of them would accept that proposal. One doesn't have to be a 'progressive' to believe that this is evil, and they didn't have to stoop to VD's level in order to achieve their aims. But they did, and they have to deal with the consequences.
(no subject) - kevin_standlee - Apr. 30th, 2015 04:15 pm (UTC) - Expand
Stevie Gamble
Apr. 29th, 2015 12:30 pm (UTC)
Yes; not telling him in advance was a cruel thing to do, and I greatly admire the dignity with which Edmund Schubert has responded. I am half way through the sampler he has put together, and recommend it to others; there's some excellent stuff in there.

I do feel that cruelty has become so prevalent that it isn't even noticed in Puppy World; it's as if everyone is disposable if it gives Brad, Larry and Vox what they want. And now Vox has turned on Brad and Larry, who are discovering that they too are disposable. There may be a degree of poetic justice involved, but it is far easier to break something than to make it. I don't think Vox cares about making anything...
May. 1st, 2015 02:01 pm (UTC)
The truly wonderful Mr. Schubert
Ed was a welcoming face from the first moments I joined fandom myself. At NASFIC 2010 his books (IGMS anthologies among other things) and my "stuff" shared a table in the dealer's room. He was generous with his time, advice, and friendship. I've been honored to call him a colleague, and occasionally enjoyed very much my time with him on sf con panels -- one that very much sticks out in light of all the recent goings on is, at illogiCon 2013? or 2014?, a panel on -- get this! -- civil discourse in sf, considering the wide range of political, religious, and other beliefs. Ed of course had some wonderful things to say on that score.

One of my favorite "Ed" moments though has to be his conversation with you at ConCarolinas last year. A huge packed hall, great, far-ranging conversation on books and fandom and on and on.

I can't really imagine what Ed has to have gone through this year. Mr. Swanwick likely said it best: "Imagine dedicating your life to science fiction. Then imagine being nominated for the Hugo for the very first time. Now imagine turning down the honor." And: "Edmund, I hope that if I ever find myself in your situation, I show your grace."


George R.R. Martin
George R. R. Martin

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